Roy- > ... One comment. I think you misunderstood my point about > Matlab and R. I am not interested in Matlab specific > implementations. The point was because the URL completely > defines the request, I can implement scripts in any application > that can send an URL and receive a file in terms of functions > built-in to that application - that is my clients do not break as > the application or operating system change. Not quite sure I understand. This phrase "...receive a file in terms of functions built-in to that application" sounds like you are creating an association between functions defined on the client side and functions defined on the server side. Can you elaborate? > Why I strongly prefer, if it is at all reasonable, services that > only use GET, not POST. Again, that is only possible if you keep your requests short enough to not violate the URL length restrictions. =Dennis Heimbigner Unidata Roy Mendelssohn wrote:
Hi Dennis: Thanks. One comment. I think you misunderstood my point about Matlab and R. I am not interested in Matlab specific implementations. The point was because the URL completely defines the request, I can implement scripts in any application that can send an URL and receive a file in terms of functions built-in to that application - that is my clients do not break as the application or operating system change. While I understand why this occurred, a few years ago we had straight OPeNDAP implementations. We had a lot of users using scripts we developed for Matlab, running under Windows. Due to updates in both Windows and Matlab, the OPeNDAP files for Windows stopped working (at least for Matlab). We had a lot of users that were left stranded and stranded for quite a long time. Developing and maintaining clients, particularly clients that are working within an application for which you have to write code, very quickly becomes a non-trivial exercise. Since we switched to a service where the URL completely defines the request, our Matlab and R scripts have survived quite nicely any number of updates both to the applications themselves and to the operating systems. That is because the clients now only use functions built into the applications. Why I strongly prefer, if it is at all reasonable, services that only use GET, not POST. -Roy On Jun 28, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Dennis Heimbigner wrote:I am old and slow, but suppose I am in OpeNDAP, are you proposing to separate say constraint expressions and server-side function requests basically the same (ie I just scan what is after each comma) or do you propose some method that signifies in the URL that what follows is an expression? In F-TDS and GDS the form of the URL is:First, I am proposing to subsume DAP constraints. Second, I am proposing, like DAP, to put the expressions in the query part of the URL (i.e. after the '?').http://machine:port/thredds/dodsC/dataset_expr_{dataset2,dataset3,...}{expression1;expression2;...}.URLsuffix?constraintSo, I would rewrite this as something more-or-less like this: http://machine.../dataset?expression1,expression2,... Where the expressions would include the references to dataset2, dataset3, and the constraint.BTW, the reason I have asked about the experience of people who are using F-TDS and GDS on whether synchronous requests can cover the large majority of cases, is because I am very partial to systems where the URL completely defines the request, and hence essentially use GET as the verb.The synchronous/asynchronous issue is, for me, a separable issue. I should note that GET has a limit on the size of URLS, so there needs to be ways to deal with that. Two possibilities are 1) use POST or PUT, or 2) provide a way to upload a long expression in parts USING multiple GETs.The reason for this is long experience. where client code has broken with changes in operating system and/or application, fixes were slow in coming, so many users were left with nothing working. In a system where the URL completely defined the request, say ERDDAP, in Matlab:link='http://coastwatch.pfeg.noaa.gov/erddap/griddap/erdBAsstamday.mat?sst[(2010-01-16T12:00:00Z):1:(2010-01-16T12:00:00Z)][(0.0):1:(0.0)][(30):1:(50.0)][(220):1:(240.0)]'; F=urlwrite(link,'cwatch.mat');Will get the related file, and the entire command is in Matlab, no extra code required. The same in R is:download.file(url="http://coastwatch.pfeg.noaa.gov/erddap/griddap/erdBAsstamday.nc?sst[(2010-01-16T12:00:00Z):1:(2010-01-16T12:00:00Z)][(0.0):1:(0.0)][(30):1:(50.0)][(220):1:(240.0)]", destfile="AGssta.nc",mode='wb')again, "download.file" is an R command.I think that we do not want to be R/MATLAB specific in a proposal to put stuff in URLs. I would rather propose to allow uploading of R/MATLAB scripts to serve as additional, user-defined functions. I would prefer tomaintain this simplicity and cover 80% of the cases if possible, than cover the rest but where more complex, application specific code would have to be developed and maintained.Agreed. However my assumption is the the output of any function that is not assigned to a single-assignment variable will be returned as part of the response; but other ways of specifying this are possible within the functional framework I am proposing. =Dennis Heimbigner Unidata********************** "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. Government or NOAA." ********************** Roy Mendelssohn Supervisory Operations Research Analyst NOAA/NMFS Environmental Research Division Southwest Fisheries Science Center 1352 Lighthouse Avenue Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097 e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx (Note new e-mail address) voice: (831)-648-9029 fax: (831)-648-8440 www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/ "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill.""From those who have been given much, much will be expected" "the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -MLK Jr.
thredds archives: