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20050902: NLDN data relay question

>From: Gilbert Sebenste <address@hidden>
>Organization: NIU
>Keywords: 200509022133.j82LXKjo005148 IDD NLDN

Hi Gilbert,

I am CCing Dr. David Knight of SUNY Albany on this reply just in
case he wants to weigh in.

>A bit of clarification on the NLDN contract.
>
>I get my NLDN from striker2@albany. What if I can't reach them, but 
>another university can? Can they relay that same data feed to me as an 
>emergency backup only, since the feed is the same?

My reading of the restrictions for the NLDN feed is there can be
NO relay of the data outside of one's own institution.

By the way, it seems unlikely that the scenario you postulate would
be valid: you can't get the data directly from SUNYA, but another
site can and you can feed from it.  This should only be possible if:

- the allow for your site were to somehow disappear in from the
  ~ldm/etc/ldmd.conf file on striker2 and the LDM on striker2 were
  restarted

- a new firewall rule is rolled in at SUNYA that somehow allows 
  a site other than yours, but not yours

>Thanks!

No worries.

Cheers,

Tom
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>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 15:48:33 2005

>We had a router go out off-campus. I couldn't contact SUNYA, but I could 
>contact College of DuPage. So, I could theoretically get it from them 
>until the router came back up (after several hours).

>*******************************************************************************
>Gilbert Sebenste                                                     ********
>(My opinions only!)                                                  ******
>Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University                      ****
>E-mail: address@hidden                                  ***
>web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu                                      **
>Work phone: 815-753-5492                                                *
>*******************************************************************************

>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:19:21 2005

Hi Gilbert,
     What Tom says is correct. You cannot relay the NLDN data
in any form to an off campus site.
 This was a requirment to allow us to distribute
the data *at all* for research and educational purposes.
I assume you are using the data *only* for research
and educational purposes, so at least the spirit
of the agreement is being satisfied.
This was not our preference, we'd much rather have used
the "normal" IDD topology to distribute the data. 
But the data provider insisted that we keep strict
control on the data to insure it went only the Unidata Universities.
If this condition is violated the company might well
cancel the agreement that allows us to make this data
available to other Universities. In fact, they can cancel
this agreement at any time, for any reason, or none at all.
Not abiding by the terms of the agreement is just asking
for problems! Please imediately terminate the feed
of NLDN data between weather.cod.edu and weather3.admin.niu.edu.
Otherwise I'll be forced to terminate feeds to both
sites so that it does not jeopardize our ability to
make the data available to other Universites.
This is a valuable resource for the Unidata
community, it would be unfortunate to loose it.
I hope you understand, and comply with the restrictions
imposed on us. Thanks, 
David

>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:29:51 2005

Hi David and Tom,

re: What Tom says is correct. You cannot relay the NLDN data
in any form to an off campus site.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

> Otherwise I'll be forced to terminate feeds to both
> sites so that it does not jeopardize our ability to
> make the data available to other Universites.
> This is a valuable resource for the Unidata
> community, it would be unfortunate to loose it.
> I hope you understand, and comply with the restrictions
> imposed on us. Thanks,
> David

Done. We had an off-campus router problem whereby I could get to COD, but 
not to you for several hours. I never relay it to anyone, and everything 
stays on campus. But I thought that because I am an "official subscriber" 
I could do that just until my primary feed came back. I have terminated 
the alternate feed to COD. I never relayed any NLDN data to anyone else, 
and all NLDN imagery is always kept on campus here. I didn't mean to 
violate any of the contract. I apologize for that.

*******************************************************************************
Gilbert Sebenste                                                     ********
(My opinions only!)                                                  ******
Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University                      ****
E-mail: address@hidden                                  ***
web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu                                      **
Work phone: 815-753-5492                                                *
*******************************************************************************

>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:32:03 2005

You said "theoretically", but in fact you are doing it.
If the NLDN feed  from striker2 is not reliable enough
for your needs I suggest you contact viasalla and
purchase the data (this may not make it any more
reliable, but, maybe they'll give you a refund
for the time period you are not receiving data).
The striker NLDN feed is intended to be reliable
enough for research and educational purposes,
if I ever find out you are using the data in any other
way I'll be forced to cut off your feed.
 
>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:36:06 2005

Thanks.
Have a good weekend,
David

>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:40:09 2005

Hi David,

> You said "theoretically", but in fact you are doing it.

Was for several hours, but gain, that was stopped when my router came 
back. Unfortunately, it looks like the LDM switched away you because 
for some reason, the connection to COD was faster. I killed that to make 
sure it never does that again.

> If the NLDN feed  from striker2 is not reliable enough
> for your needs

Actually, it more than is. It was towards our end where the problem was.

> The striker NLDN feed is intended to be reliable
> enough for research and educational purposes,
> if I ever find out you are using the data in any other
> way I'll be forced to cut off your feed.

No, it was, is, and always will be for research and educational purposes. 
I just wanted complete data while the technical problems occurred. Now I 
know...I'll just have to wait, if the router goes out again (or whatever 
reason). I'm sorry for the trouble and hard feelings.


>From address@hidden  Fri Sep  2 18:54:14 2005

Hi Gilbert,
     No hard feelings, I hope.
I like being able to make this data available
to the community. I hate having to police it.
I really hate having to tell people
(fire service, emergency management, museums, etc)
that we can't give them the data as well.
Please make sure that both your request from niu,
and the allow from cod are removed. 
Thanks
David

>From address@hidden  Sat Sep  3 00:41:14 2005

Hi David,

> Hi Gilbert,
>     No hard feelings, I hope.

None, except I feel bad that I riled you up!

> I like being able to make this data available
> to the community. I hate having to police it.
> I really hate having to tell people
> (fire service, emergency management, museums, etc)
> that we can't give them the data as well.

I was in the same position back in the late 1990s up until the NIDS 
contract expired. I had one of the first NIU websites and I had
the complete NIDS suite from Chicago's 88D, real-time NOWRAD(tm) 
imagery from WSI, and some nice background maps and loops on there. But 
the city of DeKalb, IL, where this University resides, and people 
at home in DeKalb couldn't get to it. This made people sad on campus, but 
mad with some at city hall. It wasn't my fault, obviously, and I'm sure 
you'd rather have a bit looser rules, too. Anyway...thanks again for the 
clarification, sorry for doing this, and...

> Please make sure that both your request from niu,
> and the allow from cod are removed.

This is what they have in their ldmd.conf now:

allow   UNIDATA|FSL2|DIFAX|NNEXRAD|FNEXRAD      weather3.admin.niu.edu
allow   UNIDATA|FSL2|DIFAX|NNEXRAD|FNEXRAD      weather2.admin.niu.edu
allow   UNIDATA|FSL2|DIFAX|NNEXRAD|FNEXRAD      weather.admin.niu.edu

Before, it was "allow ANY", but I help them out by watching their feeds if 
something goes wrong and they are away. I added these entries back 
in 1999, when I fed off of them full time (I only use them as backup now).

And to make clear, your feed is VERY reliable. I think that was the first 
time in years that I really noticed it down. Kudos to you for a service 
and job well done over the years. I don't think I've ever thanked you for 
it. You're doing great giving everyone the data for free, and I do 
appreciate it!

Take care and have a good weekend!

*******************************************************************************
Gilbert Sebenste                                                     ********
(My opinions only!)                                                  ******
Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University                      ****
E-mail: address@hidden                                  ***
web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu                                      **
Work phone: 815-753-5492                                                *
*******************************************************************************