From support at unidata.ucar.edu Fri Sep 15 08:09:13 2000 From: support at unidata.ucar.edu (Unidata Support) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:09:13 -0600 Subject: 20000915: DiFAX services In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:52:39 EDT." <13A94CEB3845D311A0D20008C791218075D92B@CCBC-CE> Message-ID: <200009151409.e8FE9Db29350@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: "Frantz, Doug" >Organization: ? >Keywords: 200009151252.e8FCqLb26626 DIFAX >I cannot raise ALDEN Electronics. Are there other DiFAX product >sources?? >Doug Frantz I am forwarding you a recent heads-up we sent our community on DIFAX alternatives. DIFAX Community, The NWS has informed Unidata that it will give a six month notice to the discontinuation of the DIFAX products. That is why the word "eventually" was used. We do not know when that 6 month warning will be given. Another option we are investigating is delivering the Wisconsin products via the IDD to aid in the speed and timeliness of the delivery of these products. Thank you for your comments, -Jeff ____________________________ _____________________ Jeff Weber jweber at ucar.edu Unidata Support PH:303-497-8676 NWS-COMET Case Study Library FX:303-497-8690 University Corp for Atmospheric Research 3300 Mitchell Ln http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/jweber Boulder,Co 80307-3000 ________________________________________ ______________________ On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Jeff Weber wrote: > DIFAX community, > > The National Weather Service has informed Unidata that the DIFAX service > will be terminated eventually. Alden has encountered some problems with > the DIFAX service via the IDD, that they currently are providing. > > > Unidata has tracked these issues and coordinated some options that can be > utilized when the DIFAX service ceases to exist or Alden continues with > idd transmission difficulties. > > Unidata is generating .gif imagery of these products via Redbook Graphics > and can be viewed or downloaded at: > > http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/chiz/redbook/ > > > The University of Wisconsin is also generating DIFAX type products which > are available for viewing and download in postscript format at: > > http://mapmaker.meteor.wisc.edu/difaxmaps/ > > > NOAA also offers DIFAX type products for viewing and download in > compressed (G4) .tiff formats at: > > http://weather.noaa.gov/fax/graph.shtml > > and > > http://iwin.nws.noaa.gov/wefax/products.htm > > DIFAX will cease operations in the near future, we offer these options as > interim solutions. > > > -Jeff > ____________________________ _____________________ > Jeff Weber jweber at ucar.edu > Unidata Support PH:303-497-8676 > NWS-COMET Case Study Library FX:303-497-8690 > University Corp for Atmospheric Research 3300 Mitchell Ln > http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/jweber Boulder,Co 80307-3000 > ________________________________________ ______________________ Tom Yoksas **************************************************************************** < Unidata User Support UCAR Unidata Program < (303)497-8644 P.O. Box 3000 < support at unidata.ucar.edu Boulder, CO 80307 < ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- < Unidata WWW Service http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ < **************************************************************************** < From lriddle at ucsd.edu Mon Sep 25 16:16:39 2000 From: lriddle at ucsd.edu (Larry Riddle) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:16:39 -0700 Subject: Unisys DIFAX Update Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000925151517.00acde90@meteora.ucsd.edu> Here's an update to my suggestion that some of you might want to consider getting DIFAX from Unisys instead of Alden. Our current DIFAX agreement with Unisys ends on Sep 30. I contacted Mike Porreca at Unisys to set up the next year's blanket purchase order for DIFAX. He told me that there would have to be a price increase for the service. That didn't surprise me, everything costs more today than it did yesterday. Then he told me what the increase was and I was surprised. For educational institutions, the price is going from $300.00 per year to $3300.00 per year. That's a modest 1000% increase. He said it costs Unisys over $300.00 just to process the paperwork for one school. It sounds as though they intend to pass the costs for their bad management practices along to their customers. Needless to say, we will not be getting DIFAX from Unisys next year. He did tip Unisys's hand a bit. He said "Where else are you going to get DIFAX?" Sounds as though they've been following the Alden epic, too. And then he said "If Unidata were to contract with us, instead of individual schools, then the schools could get DIFAX for $300.00 per year." The quotations are approximations, I never bothered to learn shorthand. The dollar costs are exact, however. Sorry if I raised anyone's expectations. I guess we'll just learn to live without DIFAX. This is sad, because Dan Vietor has created a really neat PNG format version of DIFAX and it's as good as any other DIFAX product I've ever seen. Larry ---===---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====[\/]=====-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===--- -----===(* Climate's what we expect, but weather's what we get. *)===----- Larry Riddle | Climate Research Div | Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego | La Jolla, California 92093-0224 Phone: (858) 534-1869 | Fax: (858) 534-8561 | EMail: lriddle at ucsd.edu http://meteora.ucsd.edu/weather.html From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Tue Sep 26 08:27:04 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:27:04 -0600 Subject: 20000926: Alden update... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:01:02 CDT." Message-ID: <200009261427.e8QER4b24997@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Gilbert Sebenste >Organization: NIU >Keywords: 200009260501.e8Q516b08733 Gilbert- My personal thoughts: >If Unidata is willing to drop the Alden contract (actually, it may be >the other way around now!), I would be willing to pay for DiFAX, coming >through the LDM, from Unisys. Unidata does not have a contract with Alden to provide DIFAX via LDM, each individual site has their own contract. Please re-read Dave Fulker's note of August 28 which explains this and Unidata position on the future of DIFAX. Also, for DIFAX related issues, difax at unidata.ucar.edu is perhaps a better forum. ldm-users is intended for discussing LDM specific issues, such as problems with the program or (unfortunately, IMHO) IDD data problems. There is only a very small subset of the entire ldm-users list that depends on Alden for data, DIFAX or otherwise. There are other users on that list that use LDM, but who do not even participate in the IDD - NWS, private companies, etc. I appreciate you trying to keep other Alden customers informed, but using ldm-users to distribute this information may give the impression that the successful operation of the IDD is still dependent on Alden's participation, which it is not. It may be moot at this point, but I'm sure Unidata would be willing to set up an alden-users at unidata.ucar.edu list for discussion of Alden related problems. Again, these are my personal thoughts. Don ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu Tue Sep 26 08:40:41 2000 From: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu (Gilbert Sebenste) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:40:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: 20000926: Alden update... In-Reply-To: <200009261427.e8QER4b24997@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: Hi DOn, > Unidata does not have a contract with Alden to provide DIFAX via LDM, > each individual site has their own contract. Please re-read Dave Fulker's > note of August 28 which explains this and Unidata position on the > future of DIFAX. You are right. Got it. > Also, for DIFAX related issues, difax at unidata.ucar.edu is perhaps a > better forum. ldm-users is intended for discussing LDM specific issues, > such as problems with the program or (unfortunately, IMHO) IDD data > problems. There is only a very small subset of the entire ldm-users list > that depends on Alden for data, DIFAX or otherwise. There are other > users on that list that use LDM, but who do not even participate in > the IDD - NWS, private companies, etc. I appreciate you trying to keep > other Alden customers informed, but using ldm-users to distribute this > information may give the impression that the successful operation of the > IDD is still dependent on Alden's participation, which it is not. True, but there are at least a dozen or so who use their DDPLUS feed from here (LSU is one example, but there are many others). > It may be moot at this point, but I'm sure Unidata would be willing > to set up an alden-users at unidata.ucar.edu list for discussion of > Alden related problems. > > Again, these are my personal thoughts. Thank you! And actually, no offense, but this may be a moot point. :-) Between you and me, Alden is dead. I bring this up as to explore other options with the LDM community. I have been getting many phone calls and emails about the issue, so I know it's just not a few people, otherwise I would not have sent the messages out. That said, as you said, it's probably all a dead issue; by October 1, Alden should be no more. ******************************************************************************* Gilbert Sebenste ******** Internet: gilbert at niu.edu (My opinions only!) ****** Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University **** E-mail: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu *** web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu ** Work phone: 815-753-5492 * ******************************************************************************* From cvander at met.fsu.edu Tue Sep 26 09:07:23 2000 From: cvander at met.fsu.edu (C. Vandersip) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Alden update... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, it's obvious that what Alden CEO Doyle relayed to me earlier this month was a bunch of hooey. The fact that he, nor anyone else in management, never personally communicated to this forum pretty much says it all. Our short term solution is to download preprocessed DIFAX maps in GIF, TIFF, or Postcript format from one of several sites, but how are these sites obtaining the source data? Unisys Ku-band? What about an LDM solution similar to all the other products? Is there a restriction that doesn't allow this data to be added to the IDD feed in g3 or other format? I know Dan V. was looking into a possible LDM solution via Unisys, but what hurdles would have to be jumped to just get this onto the standard feed, just like HDS, IDS|DDPLUS, and the others? Regards, Chris On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Gilbert Sebenste wrote: > Thanks to an iffy modem connection here, that got sent out without any > proofreading. Well, it wasn't that bad. But "Sheriff" is how it is > correctly spelled. Also, I didn't tack on the following... > > If Unidata is willing to drop the Alden contract (actually, it may be > the other way around now!), I would be willing to pay for DiFAX, coming > through the LDM, from Unisys. > > You know, I gotta say this. No offense to anyone, but DiFAX simply has the > clearest, most readable upper air maps I've ever used. I'm a WXP junkie, > and IMO WXP blows most everything else out of the water...except for this. > And Gempak, AWIPS, Digital Atmosphere...they're good, but not great for > plotting upper air analysis maps. Maybe it's the satellite winds or the > ACARS data. I dunno. I just know I want them until they sadly die away. > > I will save my rant against a completely paperless office for another > day. But although I have stopped printing out most maps from DiFAX, the > analysis maps get read by me every weekday. And printed out. > > ******************************************************************************* > Gilbert Sebenste ******** > Internet: gilbert at niu.edu (My opinions only!) ****** > Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University **** > E-mail: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu *** > web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu ** > Work phone: 815-753-5492 * > ******************************************************************************* > ############################################################### # Chris Vandersip # # Computer Research Specialist/Dept. Sysadmin # # Rm. 024, Dept. of Meteorology, Florida State University # # cvander at met.fsu.edu (850)644-2522 # ############################################################### From lriddle at ucsd.edu Tue Sep 26 09:26:38 2000 From: lriddle at ucsd.edu (Larry Riddle) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:26:38 -0700 Subject: Alden update... Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000926082216.00a41670@meteora.ucsd.edu> Since there is a discussion of DIFAX on the LDM users message list, here's a message I sent out on the DIFAX circuit yesterday: Here's an update to my suggestion that some of you might want to consider getting DIFAX from Unisys instead of Alden. Our current DIFAX agreement with Unisys ends on Sep 30. I contacted Mike Porreca at Unisys to set up the next year's blanket purchase order for DIFAX. He told me that there would have to be a price increase for the service. That didn't surprise me, everything costs more today than it did yesterday. Then he told me what the increase was and I was surprised. For educational institutions, the price is going from $300.00 per year to $3300.00 per year. That's a modest 1000% increase. He said it costs Unisys over $300.00 just to process the paperwork for one school. It sounds as though they intend to pass the costs for their bad management practices along to their customers. Needless to say, we will not be getting DIFAX from Unisys next year. He did tip Unisys's hand a bit. He said "Where else are you going to get DIFAX?" Sounds as though they've been following the Alden epic, too. And then he said "If Unidata were to contract with us, instead of individual schools, then the schools could get DIFAX for $300.00 per year." The quotations are approximations, I never bothered to learn shorthand. The dollar costs are exact, however. Sorry if I raised anyone's expectations. I guess we'll just learn to live without DIFAX. This is sad, because Dan Vietor has created a really neat PNG format version of DIFAX and it's as good as any other DIFAX product I've ever seen. Larry ---===---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====[\/]=====-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===--- -----===(* Climate's what we expect, but weather's what we get. *)===----- Larry Riddle | Climate Research Div | Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego | La Jolla, California 92093-0224 Phone: (858) 534-1869 | Fax: (858) 534-8561 | EMail: lriddle at ucsd.edu http://meteora.ucsd.edu/weather.html From lriddle at ucsd.edu Tue Sep 26 11:25:59 2000 From: lriddle at ucsd.edu (Larry Riddle) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:25:59 -0700 Subject: Alden update... Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000926100656.00acd500@meteora.ucsd.edu> A question relative to the Unisys DIFAX charts and the PNG format: > Is this the product format you get over the Ku-band? The DIFAX maps we get from Unisys are PCX format. The PNG format charts Dan Vietor is/was experimenting with may be the next phase of Unisys DIFAX. He gave me some (as digital files) to look at. They are sweet. I get my Unisys DIFAX charts by ftp'ing to Unisys once an hour (via cron), 24 times a day. Not a very elegant system. SIO gets no weather data via satellite anymore. We were a Zephyr/Alden C-band customer at one time. We went from there directly to the IDD. Where we'll go after we stop doing business with Unisys, I don't know. Larry ---===---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====[\/]=====-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===--- -----===(* Climate's what we expect, but weather's what we get. *)===----- Larry Riddle | Climate Research Div | Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego | La Jolla, California 92093-0224 Phone: (858) 534-1869 | Fax: (858) 534-8561 | EMail: lriddle at ucsd.edu http://meteora.ucsd.edu/weather.html From lriddle at ucsd.edu Tue Sep 26 11:25:59 2000 From: lriddle at ucsd.edu (Larry Riddle) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:25:59 -0700 Subject: Alden update... Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000926100656.00acd500@meteora.ucsd.edu> A question relative to the Unisys DIFAX charts and the PNG format: > Is this the product format you get over the Ku-band? The DIFAX maps we get from Unisys are PCX format. The PNG format charts Dan Vietor is/was experimenting with may be the next phase of Unisys DIFAX. He gave me some (as digital files) to look at. They are sweet. I get my Unisys DIFAX charts by ftp'ing to Unisys once an hour (via cron), 24 times a day. Not a very elegant system. SIO gets no weather data via satellite anymore. We were a Zephyr/Alden C-band customer at one time. We went from there directly to the IDD. Where we'll go after we stop doing business with Unisys, I don't know. Larry ---===---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====[\/]=====-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===--- -----===(* Climate's what we expect, but weather's what we get. *)===----- Larry Riddle | Climate Research Div | Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego | La Jolla, California 92093-0224 Phone: (858) 534-1869 | Fax: (858) 534-8561 | EMail: lriddle at ucsd.edu http://meteora.ucsd.edu/weather.html From Frank_Colby at uml.edu Tue Sep 26 12:33:20 2000 From: Frank_Colby at uml.edu (Frank Colby) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:33:20 -0400 Subject: Alden update... References: <4.2.0.58.20000926100656.00acd500@meteora.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <39D0EBEF.EB68B243@uml.edu> Just my 2 cents worth about difax -- similar to what Larry is doing, we ftp the difax charts in tiff format from the nws site. We do this from a vax system, but using cron would give the same results. I have a separate file for each time, retrieving only the charts that should be ready at that time. These are then stuck on a shared directory on an nt machine and we use an image viewer to look at them. We archive them on the vax in case we want to go back. The viewer allows printing if needed, and magnification -- the images are pretty sharp. So as long as NWS makes them, we will continue to grab them. And this is free. Frank Colby UMass Lowell From jdm27 at cornell.edu Tue Sep 26 10:20:32 2000 From: jdm27 at cornell.edu (James D. Marco) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:20:32 -0400 Subject: Alden update... References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000926122032.00c418e0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Chris, et al, I don't know about the source and production of the faxes, but I've been downloading from NWS. Their networking is not real great. But the downloads are programmed for several hour delay, hopefully when traffic is not real bad. It is possible to inject some of the faxes into the IDD. I'm sure that the NWS would prefer this, since it would hold traffic down at their site. With Alden gone, no-ones toes will get stepped on either. I do not know the legalisms, proprietor regulations, etc, but I assume the NWS data is public. Of course, there are the powers-that-be here at Cornell (with purse strings.) jdm >At 11:07 AM 9/26/00 -0400, you wrote: >>Well, it's obvious that what Alden CEO Doyle relayed to me earlier this >>month was a bunch of hooey. The fact that he, nor anyone else in >>management, never personally communicated to this forum pretty much says >>it all. >> >>Our short term solution is to download preprocessed DIFAX maps in GIF, >>TIFF, or Postcript format from one of several sites, but how are these >>sites obtaining the source data? Unisys Ku-band? What about an LDM >>solution similar to all the other products? Is there a restriction that >>doesn't allow this data to be added to the IDD feed in g3 or other format? >>I know Dan V. was looking into a possible LDM solution via Unisys, but >>what hurdles would have to be jumped to just get this onto the standard >>feed, just like HDS, IDS|DDPLUS, and the others? >> >>Regards, >> >>Chris >> >>On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Gilbert Sebenste wrote: >> >>> Thanks to an iffy modem connection here, that got sent out without any >>> proofreading. Well, it wasn't that bad. But "Sheriff" is how it is >>> correctly spelled. Also, I didn't tack on the following... >>> >>> If Unidata is willing to drop the Alden contract (actually, it may be >>> the other way around now!), I would be willing to pay for DiFAX, coming >>> through the LDM, from Unisys. >>> >>> You know, I gotta say this. No offense to anyone, but DiFAX simply has the >>> clearest, most readable upper air maps I've ever used. I'm a WXP junkie, >>> and IMO WXP blows most everything else out of the water...except for this. >>> And Gempak, AWIPS, Digital Atmosphere...they're good, but not great for >>> plotting upper air analysis maps. Maybe it's the satellite winds or the >>> ACARS data. I dunno. I just know I want them until they sadly die away. >>> >>> I will save my rant against a completely paperless office for another >>> day. But although I have stopped printing out most maps from DiFAX, the >>> analysis maps get read by me every weekday. And printed out. >>> >>> **************************************************************************** *** >>> Gilbert Sebenste ******** >>> Internet: gilbert at niu.edu (My opinions only!) ****** >>> Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University **** >>> E-mail: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu *** >>> web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu ** >>> Work phone: 815-753-5492 * >>> **************************************************************************** *** >>> >> >> ############################################################### >> # Chris Vandersip # >> # Computer Research Specialist/Dept. Sysadmin # >> # Rm. 024, Dept. of Meteorology, Florida State University # >> # cvander at met.fsu.edu (850)644-2522 # >> ############################################################### >> >> >>