From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Tue Oct 10 10:35:00 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:35:00 -0600 Subject: 20001010: Alden finality? future? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:16:05 EDT." <200010101616.e9AGG5w00536@mirage.millersv.edu> Message-ID: <200010101635.e9AGZ1424925@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Eric Horst >Organization: Millersville >Keywords: 200010101616.e9AGGJ424173 difax demise Eric- >So where do we go from here? > >I know that Art Person (PSU) and all of us here at Millersville are committed >to maintaining a DIFAX mapwall in our respective institutions. There are >other possibilities such as UNISYS...so I think we need to get UNIDATA >involved, despite the fact they live and breath in the "electronic map >world". But down here where the rubber meets the road, paper difax maps >are still a fundamental part of the educational and forecast process. Unidata HAS been involved in providing several options other than Unisys. Unidata has never subsidized DIFAX from Alden. In addition to the options provided in several different emails this past summer, University of Wisconsin has offered up GEMPAK scripts to create DIFAX-like maps. University Mass - Lowell has indicated that they are automatically downloading maps from the NWS web site. Perhaps they are willing to share their scripts with others (even though they are VAX scripts, they could probably be adapted). The NWS will terminate the DIFAX feed soon, so even the Unisys option is a short-term bandaid. One of the fundamental aspects of Unidata is community building. Perhaps someone in the DIFAX community would be willing to automatically generate DIFAX or DIFAX-like products and feed them via LDM to others dependent on DIFAX. Apparently, we now have a spare feed type. ;-) Additionally, since most of the people on the ldm-users list do not receive DIFAX, perhaps discussion of this topic should be moved to the difax at unidata.ucar.edu list which was set up several years ago to discuss DIFAX specific issues like this. Just my $.02 Don Murray ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From Frank_Colby at uml.edu Wed Oct 11 07:08:30 2000 From: Frank_Colby at uml.edu (Frank Colby) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:08:30 -0400 Subject: 20001010: Alden finality? future? References: <200010101635.e9AGZ1424925@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: <39E4664D.5A82DA96@uml.edu> Everyone, As Don indicates, we have been downloading difax maps in .tif format for years. Converting our VAX (DCL) scripts to unix scripts wouldn't be very difficult, and we would be happy to share them. Frank Colby UMass Lowell From lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu Wed Oct 11 07:13:11 2000 From: lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu (Linda Miller) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:13:11 -0600 Subject: DIFAX Scripts In-Reply-To: <39E46501.95FD15C6@mail.plymouth.edu> Message-ID: <585782669.971248391@mae.unidata.ucar.edu> Hi Jim, Thanks so much. This is what the Unidata community is all about! I've taken the liberty to copy the Difax email list which was set up specifically to address questions and issues related to Difax. Linda --On Wednesday, October 11, 2000 9:02 AM -0400 Jim Koermer wrote: > Hello, > > I've put together a few unix scripts for downloading and printing NWS > DIFAX charts. They work on the majority of the products (but not all). > One is for a single or double panel chart download and the other > combines two 2-panel charts into a 4-panel chart. > > The scripts and information can be found at > > http://cyclone.plymouth.edu/difax.html > > Jim > > -- > James P. Koermer E-Mail: koermer at mail.plymouth.edu > Professor of Meteorology Office Phone: (603)535-2574 > Natural Science Department Office Fax: (603)535-2723 > Plymouth State College WWW: http://vortex.plymouth.edu/ > Plymouth, NH 03264 Linda Miller - lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu External Liaison, Unidata University Corporation for Atmospheric Research P.O. Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000 303 497-8646 fax: 303-497-8690 URL: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/lmiller/un.act.html From jdm27 at cornell.edu Wed Oct 11 09:36:08 2000 From: jdm27 at cornell.edu (James D. Marco) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:36:08 -0400 Subject: DIFAX Scripts In-Reply-To: <585782669.971248391@mae.unidata.ucar.edu> References: <39E46501.95FD15C6@mail.plymouth.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001011113608.00c55b00@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Hi ho, A program for downloading NWS faxes is posted on one of the web sites at Cornell. Kinda rough around the edges, for LINUX (RH6.2). And, most Unix OS's, if you have some ancillary files listed in the program. Tried to keep it portable... No executable, there are some compile time config that need to be done, before building. (This is a copy of the first non-beta) Point your browser at: http:\\atmos.cit.cornell.edu/download/wfax.tgz I could not get permission to inject the faxes into the IDD. Sorry. There were some legalistical, not logical, concerns. As Don suggested, difax stuff should move over to the difax list. So this is the last on this subject from me to the ldm list. jdm James D. Marco, jdm27 at cornell.edu, jmarco1 at twcny.rr.com Programmer/Analyst, System/Network Administration, Computer Support, Et Al. Office: 1020 Bradfield Hall, Cornell University Home: 302 Mary Lane, Varna (607)273-9132 Computer Lab: 1125 Bradfield (607)255-5589 From devo at ks.unisys.com Wed Oct 11 10:06:00 2000 From: devo at ks.unisys.com (Dan Vietor) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:06:00 -0400 Subject: DIFAX Scripts In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20001011113608.00c55b00@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: <00c101c0339d$289f8980$37833ec0@devo> For those really interested, the TIF files are on the NWS web site and you can cross reference this to the FTP files. http://weather.noaa.gov/fax/nwsfax.shtml The FTP files have a WMO header like name convention. For example (all with .TIF extensions), here are some common ones: QAUA00 - radar summaries (24/day) QYAA00 - surface analyses (8/day) QGUA00 - weather depictions (8/day) QTTA00 - max temp QTTA01 - min temp QETA00 - 24 hr precip QSTA00 - snow cover * most of these are twice a day PGBE99 - 12, 24 hr sig wx, sfc prog QHUQ00 - 36, 48 hr sfc prog and description QHUA17 - 200 mb analysis QHUA25 - 250 mb analysis QHUA15, QMUA15 - 300 mb analysis (diff chart for 0 and 12) QHTA11 - 500 mb analysis QHTA07 - 700 mb analysis QHUA04 - 850 mb analysis QTTR00 - NGM MOS POP forecast QTTE00 - NGM max/min forecast * once a day PGUE00 - day 1,2 convective outlook QTMI01 - day 3-4 pop anom, day 3 temp anom QTMI00 - day 4-5 temp anom QPUT88 - 6-10 day prog * Multipanel that need to be put together, twice a day QHUA89,88 - LI, prec water, frz lvl, mn RH 4 panel QHUA71,70 - NGM 0 hr 4 panel QHUE71,70 - NGM 12 hr 4 panel QHUI71,70 - NGM 24 hr 4 panel QHUM71,70 - NGM 36 hr 4 panel QHUQ71,70 - NGM 48 hr 4 panel QHUM86,85 - NGM 850 48 hr 4 panel I take these charts and use ImageMagick's convert and montage to put them together and then output PNG. I also rotate them 180 degrees for viewing on a screen with something like xv. For download, I wrote FTP code in Perl to do the hard work. It downloads the directory listing, decodes the dates to determine which chart has changed since the last check. Then I download the chart and do the post processing. I won't give away all my secrets but for those who want to do the legwork, everything you need is there! BTW, that NWS page covers about 90% of all current Difax charts. NWs has told me that this will continue to be there and that they are updating the hardware on this system. They will give priority use to some customers such as commercial data providers and maybe one or two Unidata sites (check with the NWS contact listed on bottom of web page). So it may be a good idea for one or two universities to handle most of the load and distribute it through IDD. When they upgrade and provide priority service, Unidata won't be bundled into the low priority group. Good luck! ________________________________________________________ Daniel Vietor Mail: devo at ks.unisys.com Unisys Corp Title: Engineer/Meteorologist 221 Gale Lane Phone: 610-925-5206 Kennett Square PA 19348 Fax: 610-925-5215 From ldm at ucar.edu Mon Oct 16 16:27:01 2000 From: ldm at ucar.edu (CGD LDM) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Subject: DIFAX gone? In-Reply-To: <00c101c0339d$289f8980$37833ec0@devo> Message-ID: I just want to know if ALDEN is sending out DIFAX data or not. Neither thunder nor lightning appear to be on the IDD. Thanks. From lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu Wed Oct 18 07:48:11 2000 From: lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu (Linda Miller) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:48:11 -0600 Subject: 20001018: DIFAX In-Reply-To: <200010181204.e9IC4P402796@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: <1192682418.971855291@mae.unidata.ucar.edu> Hi Tom, There are several steps being taken to address the Difax issues through the UPC, the Users Committee and the Unidata community. Let me first say that the NWS plans to send the notice this month and the regular Difax service, as we know it today, will cease. The date that I was given yesterday is April 30, 2001. See below... --On Wednesday, October 18, 2000 6:04 AM -0600 Unidata Support wrote: > ------- Forwarded Message > >> To: support at unidata.ucar.edu, >> To: Steve Chiswell , >> To: Robb Kambic >> cc: harnack at envsci.rutgers.edu, >> cc: arnesen at envsci.rutgers.edu >> From: Tom Grzelak >> Subject: RE: DIFAX Scripts >> Organization: UCAR/Unidata >> Keywords: 200010112012.e9BKCZ401613 > >> Organization: UCAR/Unidata >> From: "Dan Vietor" >> To: "'James D. Marco'" , , >> >> Subject: RE: DIFAX Scripts > > > >> They will give priority use to >> some customers such as commercial data providers and maybe one or two >> Unidata sites (check with the NWS contact listed on bottom of web page). >> So it may be a good idea for one or two universities to handle most of >> the load and distribute it through IDD. When they upgrade and provide >> priority service, Unidata won't be bundled into the low priority group. > > What do you guys think of what Dan has suggested? Can we get DIFAX back > into the IDD (for no cost) to EDU? Leaving the commercial world to work > with the commercial vendors for DIFAX, couldn't we set up where these DIFAX > charts get distributed through the IDD tree? The Unidata Users Committee and the UPC have been working toward some resolution to the Difax issue. There will be a message to the Difax and LDM user community when the testing is complete. Jeff Weber, Unidata, Pete Pokrandt, Univ of Wis-Madison with the help of one or two other sites are testing a method, where users would get Difax like products via the IDD with printing capabilities. > > Right now, I am writing an internal Rutgers proposal with the Remote > Sensing Center (CRSSA) here at Rutgers to buy a server which would permit > both my groups and the CRSSA to serve up data for internet access through > our web sites, ftp, etc.. One of the things I am proposing to do with this > server is to move our IDD relay back to the Dept here and onto this > machine. Our RU network capabilities have increased significantly and will > continued to be improved through our network project completion of next > summer. If this IDD of DIFAX is a possibility, then I would offer Rutgers > as a possible top-level site to aid in its distribution. Thank you for offering. I will let Jeff know upon his return next Monday. For your proposal, you might also be considering the future data and products that will become freely available, e.g., Level III (NIDS type products), additional models via NOAAPort, etc, when you are considering the IDD relay capabilities. > > We, like several on the mailing groups, download automatically DIFAX maps > from the NWS using auto-FTP type technology. It seems to be > counter-productive to have everyone doing this individually to NWS. Why > not incorporate this into IDD and then we won't have to worry about > everyone building/managing scripts to get this data? There have been numerous reports of this service disappearing from the NWS at the same time the Difax service ends. The NWS has promised to succinctly address all aspects of the Difax services in their notice. > > I am willing to write this into our proposal if you think that this is > something we should do with IDD. If there is someone at UNIDATA which I > should contact further about this, please let me know. As mentioned, Jeff Weber, Unidata is dealing with the Difax issue, but it would be helpful if you gave him a breather until he returned back to the office next Monday. He tries to log in periodically, but it is not always easy while being away from the office. In the meantime, you might want to check the Difax Web page that Jeff has posted at: http://unidata.ucar.edu/community.difax.html Please be aware that this information is not static. As we are updated, the information will be changed to reflect the updates. Linda > > This is just such a hot issue that it seems it is something we should > REALLY consider doing for FREE. > > Thanks! > Tom > ============================================================== > Tom Grzelak grzelak at envsci.rutgers.edu > Manager - Computing Services > ----> Center for Environmental Prediction > ----> Department of Environmental Sciences > > Rutgers University > 14 College Farm Road Voice: 732-932-4923 > New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8551 Fax: 732-932-8644 > http://www.envsci.rutgers.edu > ============================================================== > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > Linda Miller - lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu External Liaison, Unidata University Corporation for Atmospheric Research P.O. Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000 303 497-8646 fax: 303-497-8690 URL: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/lmiller/un.act.html From lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu Wed Oct 18 12:11:08 2000 From: lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu (Linda Miller) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:11:08 -0600 Subject: 20001018: Re: DIFAX gone? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1208459184.971871068@mae.unidata.ucar.edu> Gary, --On Wednesday, October 18, 2000 12:01 PM -0600 CGD LDM wrote: > > I just want to know if ALDEN is sending out DIFAX data or not. Neither > thunder nor lightning appear to be on the IDD. > The Alden Difax is gone. Alden is out of business. The Unidata Program Center and the Unidata Users Committee, along with the community contributions are in the process of exploring other options. You should join the difax at unidata .ucar.edu email list to be updated on Difax information and recent exchanges. You can subscribe at: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailinglist/mailing-list-form.html You might want to check the Web page created by Jeff Weber for more Difax information. http://unidata.ucar.edu/community.difax.html Linda > Gary Strand, CGD LDM guy > Thanks. > > > > > Linda Miller - lmiller at unidata.ucar.edu External Liaison, Unidata University Corporation for Atmospheric Research P.O. Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000 303 497-8646 fax: 303-497-8690 URL: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/staff/lmiller/un.act.html From sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu Thu Oct 19 08:24:51 2000 From: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu (Gilbert Sebenste) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:24:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) Message-ID: Well, I guess this settles the fate of this email group... ******************************************************************************* Gilbert Sebenste ******** Internet: gilbert at niu.edu (My opinions only!) ****** Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University **** E-mail: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu *** web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu ** Work phone: 815-753-5492 * ******************************************************************************* NOUS40 KWBC 191236 FOS/NOAAPORT NOTICE NO. 1810 OCTOBER 19... 2000 ATTENTION FAMILY OF SERVICES DIFAX SUBSCRIBERS SUBJECT FAMILY OF SERVICES /FOS/ DIFAX TERMINATION THE PURPOSE OF THIS NOTIFICATION IS TO ADVISE YOU THAT THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE /NWS/ WILL DISCONTINUE ITS FOS DIFAX SERVICE EFFECTIVE 1200 UTC... APRIL 30... 2001. THE FOS DIFAX SERVICE IS NO LONGER REQUIRED TO SUPPORT NWS OPERATIONS. SIMILAR TYPE PRODUCTS ARE AVAILABLE IN MODERN FORMATS ON OTHER DISSEMINATION SERVICES. MORE DETAILS ON THE TERMINATION OF DIFAX WILL BE PROVIDED IN FUTURE NOTIFICATIONS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS CONCERNING THIS NOTICE... PLEASE CONTACT JULIE L. HAYES /W/OPS32/ PHONE 301 713-0864 EXTENSION 120 EMAIL JULIE.HAYES/AT SYMBOL/NOAA.GOV THIS INFORMATION IS ALSO POSTED ON THE NWS SYSTEMS OPERATIONS CENTER CHANGE NOTICES WEB PAGE. THE URL IS LISTED BELOW. HTTP//WWW.NWS.NOAA.GOV/OSO/NOTICES/NOTICES.SHTML LLOYD IRVIN CHIEF GRAPHICS AND DISPLAY SECTION SYSTEMS OPERATIONS CENTER END NNNN  From Julie.Hayes at noaa.gov Thu Oct 19 07:49:32 2000 From: Julie.Hayes at noaa.gov (Julie Hayes) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:49:32 -0400 Subject: FOS NOTICE NO. 1810 - DIFAX TERMINATION Message-ID: <39EEFBEC.6C4AE363@noaa.gov> From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Thu Oct 19 09:00:08 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:00:08 -0600 Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:24:51 CDT." Message-ID: <200010191500.e9JF08426990@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Gilbert Sebenste >Organization: NIU >Keywords: 200010191424.e9JEOq425400 Gilbert- >Well, I guess this settles the fate of this email group... On the contrary, I think this list is an excellent place to discuss DIFAX alternatives (much better than ldm-users). But, I'm glad they finally announced the demise so you don't have to be kept hanging in the dark. Don ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From tmcderm at weather.brockport.edu Thu Oct 19 09:11:16 2000 From: tmcderm at weather.brockport.edu (Tom McDermott) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200010191500.e9JF08426990@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: I gathered from one of the messages last week, I believe it was Dan Vietor's, that NWS will continue to have DIFAX tiff files available at their web sites even if FOS transmission is terminated as today's notice threatens. If not, ftp'ing those files is certainly no long-term solution to the dilemma created by Alden's demise. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tom McDermott Email: tmcderm at weather.brockport.edu System Administrator Phone: (716) 395-5718 Earth Sciences Dept. Fax: (716) 395-2416 SUNY College at Brockport On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Don Murray wrote: > >From: Gilbert Sebenste > >Organization: NIU > > Gilbert- > > >Well, I guess this settles the fate of this email group... > > On the contrary, I think this list is an excellent place to discuss > DIFAX alternatives (much better than ldm-users). > > But, I'm glad they finally announced the demise so you don't have > to be kept hanging in the dark. > > Don From knight at atmos.albany.edu Thu Oct 19 09:13:04 2000 From: knight at atmos.albany.edu (David Knight) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:13:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200010191500.e9JF08426990@unidata.ucar.edu> from Don Murray at "Oct 19, 0 09:00:08 am" Message-ID: <200010191513.PAA12375@oak.atmos.albany.edu> Agreed!!! David > > Gilbert- > > >Well, I guess this settles the fate of this email group... > > On the contrary, I think this list is an excellent place to discuss > DIFAX alternatives (much better than ldm-users). > > But, I'm glad they finally announced the demise so you don't have > to be kept hanging in the dark. > > Don > ************************************************************* > Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program > dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 > (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 > ************************************************************* > Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ > McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ > ************************************************************* From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Thu Oct 19 09:37:31 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:37:31 -0600 Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:11:16 EDT." Message-ID: <200010191537.e9JFbV429253@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Tom McDermott >Organization: SUNY/Brockport >Keywords: 200010191511.e9JFBI427781 difax issues Tom- >I gathered from one of the messages last week, I believe it was Dan >Vietor's, that NWS will continue to have DIFAX tiff files available at >their web sites even if FOS transmission is terminated as today's notice >threatens. If not, ftp'ing those files is certainly no long-term solution >to the dilemma created by Alden's demise. It's our understanding from talking to the NWS that the charts on the FTP and Web servers will go away on April 30 also. We had pushed for that info to be included in the announcement, but perhaps it will be in the future notifications indicated in the announcement. The key thing to read in the announcement is that DIFAX is no longer required to support NWS operations. To me that would say that they will stop producing DIFAX maps since the products are available in modern formats (e.g. Redbook Graphics). In any case, relying on the DIFAX products is a dead end. The Unidata User's Committee is exploring options for community generated products. I was just at UW-Madison and looked at the charts they produce using GEMPAK. They've done a good job and their scripts are available as one of the options that Unidata has posted at: http://unidata.ucar.edu/community.difax.html To me, these are much better than using the old DIFAX maps. You can't get ensemble forecast charts on DIFAX. Additionally, from a pedagogical view, using the tools that Unidata provides to create and print custom displays seems a better alternative to using DIFAX anyway for exploring the atmosphere. We all went through the process of shading in areas of NVA and PVA on the NGM charts. Wouldn't it be better to use GEMPAK to generate maps with quantitative contours of NVA and PVA rather than use the subjective hand analyses? With DIFAX, the views are dictated by the products that the NWS creates. Those views haven't changed in 30 years, but our knowledge of how best to look at features has. The tools we have can generate the "old" views, but also new views (isentropic analyses, ensemble forecasts, etc). Perhaps using them will help advance the knowledge and science. Don ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From poker at sysadm.meteor.wisc.edu Thu Oct 19 10:14:41 2000 From: poker at sysadm.meteor.wisc.edu (Pete Pokrandt) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:14:41 -0500 Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:37:31 MDT." <200010191537.e9JFbV429253@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: <200010191614.LAA29769@sysadm.meteor.wisc.edu> In a previous message to me, you wrote: > >In any case, relying on the DIFAX products is a dead end. The >Unidata User's Committee is exploring options for community generated >products. I was just at UW-Madison and looked at the charts they >produce using GEMPAK. They've done a good job and their scripts >are available as one of the options that Unidata has posted at: > >http://unidata.ucar.edu/community.difax.html > >To me, these are much better than using the old DIFAX maps. >You can't get ensemble forecast charts on DIFAX. > All, Just a heads-up, we (UW-Madison) will also be broadcasting via the IDD the gzip'd postscript files for all of these maps that we are making locally using the above mentioned scripts. I'm trying to get things set up now, and a few sites have expressed interest in helping me to test it all out. I'll let everyone know when it is up and running, and include info on how to get the maps, what's included, etc. Pete -- +>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+ ^ Pete Pokrandt V 1447 AOSS Bldg 1225 W Dayton St^ ^ Systems Programmer V Madison, WI 53706 ^ ^ V poker at meteor.wisc.edu ^ ^ Dept of Atmos & Oceanic Sciences V (608) 262-3086 (Phone/voicemail) ^ ^ University of Wisconsin-Madison V 262-0166 (Fax) ^ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ From sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu Thu Oct 19 11:30:22 2000 From: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu (Gilbert Sebenste) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: 20001019: NWS NOAAport message (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200010191500.e9JF08426990@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Don Murray wrote: > But, I'm glad they finally announced the demise so you don't have > to be kept hanging in the dark. I agree!!! More later. ******************************************************************************* Gilbert Sebenste ******** Internet: gilbert at niu.edu (My opinions only!) ****** Staff Meteorologist, Northern Illinois University **** E-mail: sebenste at weather.admin.niu.edu *** web: http://weather.admin.niu.edu ** Work phone: 815-753-5492 * ******************************************************************************* From rockwooa at mscd.edu Thu Oct 19 11:42:52 2000 From: rockwooa at mscd.edu (Anthony Rockwood - MSCD Meteorology) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: DIFAX as a teaching tool In-Reply-To: <200010191537.e9JFbV429253@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: Everyone, Don's ranting (see below) supports my comments from last week when I suggested that we teachers need to find new ways to teach and students need to find new ways to learn. Teachers should be exploring ways to create exercises that will allow students to explore what generated the vorticity to begin with, what factors change it, what it all has to do with creating weather, and this can be done with apps like GEMPAK/GARP and maybe even more effectively with NMAP that's part of the new release. Or how about a nice vorticity MetApp ? It was always very hard to get these concepts across with DIFAX maps, even though students got pretty good at shading areas of PVA and NVA. I still like the idea of having the surface analysis, the U/A maps and a model or two hanging on the wall for students when they come into the lab, want a quick look at the patterns, and pretend they can predict the weather from a 30 second look at the maps :-) And there are still students who aren't as skilled at the computer as others. So for a quick look at the current weather, DIFAX (or some kind of hardcopy) is fine, but as a teaching tool, it's old technology and our students deserve better. > > Additionally, from a pedagogical view, using the tools that > Unidata provides to create and print custom displays seems a better > alternative to using DIFAX anyway for exploring the atmosphere. We all > went through the process of shading in areas of NVA and PVA on the > NGM charts. Wouldn't it be better to use GEMPAK to generate maps with > quantitative contours of NVA and PVA rather than use the subjective hand > analyses? With DIFAX, the views are dictated by the products that the > NWS creates. Those views haven't changed in 30 years, but our knowledge > of how best to look at features has. The tools we have can generate > the "old" views, but also new views (isentropic analyses, ensemble > forecasts, etc). Perhaps using them will help advance the knowledge > and science. > Tony **************************************************************************** Anthony A. Rockwood Metropolitan State College of Denver Meteorology Program Dept.of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences 303.556.8399 P.O. Box 173362, Campus Box 22 rockwooa at mscd.edu Denver, CO 80217-3362 fax: 303.556.4436 www.mscd.edu/~eas **************************************************************************** From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Thu Oct 19 13:02:42 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:02:42 -0600 Subject: 20001019: DIFAX as a teaching tool In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:42:52 MDT." Message-ID: <200010191902.e9JJ2g405687@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Anthony Rockwood - MSCD Meteorology >Organization: UCAR/Unidata >Keywords: 200010191742.e9JHgq403558 Tony- > Don's ranting (see below) supports my comments from last week when I > suggested that we teachers need to find new ways to teach and students > need to find new ways to learn. Teachers should be exploring ways to > create exercises that will allow students to explore what generated the > vorticity to begin with, what factors change it, what it all has to do > with creating weather, and this can be done with apps like GEMPAK/GARP and > maybe even more effectively with NMAP that's part of the new release. Or > how about a nice vorticity MetApp ? Write up a use case. >It was always very hard to get these > concepts across with DIFAX maps, even though students got pretty good at > shading areas of PVA and NVA. It worked fine in the 70's and 80's, but now we're (almost) in a new millenium. ;-) >I still like the idea of having the surface analysis, the U/A maps and a >model or two hanging on the wall for students when they come into the lab, >want a quick look at the patterns, and pretend they can predict the >weather from a 30 second look at the maps :-) And there are still >students who aren't as skilled at the computer as others. I agree. >So for a quick look at the current weather, DIFAX (or some kind of >hardcopy) is fine, but as a teaching tool, it's old technology and our >students deserve better. I think hardcopy can be fine as a teaching tool. What I object to is using the DIFAX-centric view of the world. For example, having printouts of the MRF ensemble forecasts is great for a map wall and students (and faculty) can get a quick view of the output without having to crank up a session and figure out how to create the products themselves. Sometimes in a classroom setting, it might be easier to use a wall of maps when computer resources and time are limited. I just think we need to be more creative in what we print out and how we use those pieces of paper. As far as MetApps, the GriddedData viewer can now display isosurfaces of temperature to illustrate phenomena like overrunning. To me, using an animation of the 0 C isosurface would be a much better forecasting tool than a wall of 1000, 850, 700 and 500 mb maps for determining rain/snow distribution in a questionable situation. That's a lot better than what you can do with DIFAX maps. Or, using GEMPAK or McIDAS, I could calculate various rain/snow parameters and produce maps of those for display. I guess we need a pedagogy at unidata.ucar.edu list now to discuss this issue. ;-) Don ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From rockwooa at mscd.edu Thu Oct 19 13:25:37 2000 From: rockwooa at mscd.edu (Anthony Rockwood - MSCD Meteorology) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Subject: DIFAX dialogue In-Reply-To: <200010191902.e9JJ2g405687@unidata.ucar.edu> Message-ID: Everyone, Don and I aren't the only ones with an opinion on the use of DIFAX as an educational tool. But we are both part of the Unidata Users Committee that will be meeting in three weeks with this whole topic of DIFAX on the agenda. The UPC will not be providing a replacement product, but we'll be discussing ways that the Unidata community might find it's own way to make and distribute the products, if the demand is there. So, I'd like for as many educators and students or former students (are we all former students?) to post comments on this topic so we can go to the table as well informed as possible. It would be especially useful to hear from recent students who may have been taught using a mix of old and new technology. The more input, the better. Tony **************************************************************************** Anthony A. Rockwood Metropolitan State College of Denver Meteorology Program Dept.of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences 303.556.8399 P.O. Box 173362, Campus Box 22 rockwooa at mscd.edu Denver, CO 80217-3362 fax: 303.556.4436 www.mscd.edu/~eas **************************************************************************** From dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu Thu Oct 19 13:42:59 2000 From: dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu (Don Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:42:59 -0600 Subject: 20001019: DIFAX dialogue In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:25:37 MDT." Message-ID: <200010191943.e9JJgx411971@unidata.ucar.edu> >From: Anthony Rockwood - MSCD Meteorology >Organization: Metro State >Keywords: 200010191925.e9JJPc409113 Tony, et al. >Don and I aren't the only ones with an opinion on the use of DIFAX as an >educational tool. But we are both part of the Unidata Users Committee that >will be meeting in three weeks with this whole topic of DIFAX on the >agenda. The UPC will not be providing a replacement product, but we'll be >discussing ways that the Unidata community might find it's own way to make >and distribute the products, if the demand is there. So, I'd like for as >many educators and students or former students (are we all former >students?) to post comments on this topic so we can go to the table as >well informed as possible. It would be especially useful to hear from >recent students who may have been taught using a mix of old and new >technology. If you do this (and I encourage you to) please be sure to cc: or send your comments to usercomm at unidata.ucar.edu (since not all User Committee members are subscribed to difax). Don ************************************************************* Don Murray UCAR Unidata Program dmurray at unidata.ucar.edu P.O. Box 3000 (303) 497-8628 Boulder, CO 80307 ************************************************************* Unidata WWW Server http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/ McIDAS Demonstration Machine http://mcdemo.unidata.ucar.edu/ ************************************************************* From cottrill at buddha.met.fsu.edu Fri Oct 20 08:08:28 2000 From: cottrill at buddha.met.fsu.edu (B. Cottrill) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Forecast Products Message-ID: <200010201408.KAA27360@buddha.met.fsu.edu> Good morning all, I know that this is a bit off the discussion that has been spreading through the DIFAX community this morning, but I have a request that I can not fill. Would anyone out there have these data plots available? Do you archive the data and/or plots of the US temperature and precipitation 1 month outlooks and seasonal outlooks for varying lead times (i.e., 0.5,1.5,...,12.5) from CPC/NCEP. I know that the forecasts began in 1995 and continue on a monthly basis. The forecasts and data are generated once a month. If this data is archived at NCDC, please let me know where/how this data may be accessed and at what price. If anyone can help out that would be great. You can contact myself or David Bachiochi Thanks for any help provided in advance. BC ____________________________________________________________________ | Bill Cottrill | Anything you do is worth doing Weather Station Manager | well. If you do your best, 99% Coordinator Academic Programs | of the time you will perform Department of Meteorology | beyond the expectation. Chances Florida State University | are if you even attempt the Phone: (850) 644-8581 | task you will perform beyond Fax: (850) 644-9642 | the expectation these days. | From Richard.Clark at millersv.edu Fri Oct 27 02:20:00 2000 From: Richard.Clark at millersv.edu (Richard Clark) Date: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:20 PM -0400 Subject: DIFAX Message-ID: <1989376669.972651985@mae.unidata.ucar.edu> This message is forwarded from Rich Clark, Chair of the Unidata Users Committee concerning alternatives to Difax. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Greetings: By now it is common knowledge that Alden is no longer a supplier of Difax products. This has brought to the forefront the larger question of the future of Difax, along with a flurry of healthy email about the role of Difax and the creation of difax-like products by the community. Let us first recognize that the days of Difax are limited (Alden or not). I believe that the fading of Difax affords us the opportunity to build a better mouse trap. Here are some things that have been going on to treat the symptoms of Difax withdrawal. Unidata staff, notably Jeff Weber, have been busy compiling community-generated alternatives that can be employed to create Difax-like products. Jeff has added a link to these alternatives that can be accessed via www.unidata.ucar.edu go to community, then Difax alternatives . These scripts, some Unidata-produced and others home brew, can be used to create Difax-like products on your home server using the IDD datastream, thus eliminating the need for Difax. But this is only part of the effort. Many users may be interested in learning of the initiative by the University of Wisconsin (UW), notably Pete Pokrandt, in cooperation with Unidata, to create a full suite of difax-like products (about 100) on a UW server, and make those products available to the user community. Testing has been going on for about a week at Millersville, Lyndon State, and UC San Diego to obtain Difax-like products created at UW, and so far the results have been very positive. Currently, the number of products is limited to ETA and MRF runs, surface maps, and ETA initializations on constant pressure surfaces, but this number is being expanded almost daily. The maps created by UW are of very high quality, and printable on 8.5x11 or 11x17 postscript printers. The topology for product distribution has not been ironed out yet, but Unidata and UW are working on it. It is likely that the products will be piped into the IDD system. A general announcement to the Difax community regarding the availability of these products will be forthcoming when a topology has been worked out. In addition to the UW/Unidata initiative, the user community can, and should, participate in generating specialized products that could be distributed to other institutions using the IDD topology. Wisconsin should not be seen as providing one-stop-shopping for the variety of specialized products that the user community may want. Most sites receive the data needed to create the charts and could run the scripts that generate them at their own installation. That would give the community more control over what is produced, enable us to generate products specific to our region, and eliminate a single point of failure in the system by providing alternate IDD sources for the maps. Unidata can assist institutions interested in developing such products with getting those products to the IDD for community-wide distribution. (Remember that Unidata's business is the management of data and software, not the generation of products, per se.) Again, if you want to replicate what Wisconsin is doing, or create specialized products, you can start the process by obtaining scripts using the web link given above. We have an opportunity to create a suite of valuable products through the spirit of cooperation that has become the cornerstone of the Unidata/User Community relationship. Wisconsin is poised to deliver a suite of general products in the near future that, if the test products are any indication, should satisfy the most discerning user. In addition, specific products and replicates of the Wisconsin suite of products can be generated at the local institutions and distributed to others. Many believe this is the appropriate path to follow, but Unidata and the UserComm continue to solicit your comments through the Difax email list, On behalf of the Unidata UserComm, I would like to extend a sincere thanks to Jeff Weber, Pete Pokrandt, Linda Miller and other members of the Unidata staff, the test site point persons, and the contributors to the Difax, ldm-users, and usercomm email dialogue for their combined efforts. There is still much that can be done, but it appears that we are making progress. Unidata staff will continue to provide updates as necessary. If you want to participate in the ongoing dialogue regarding difax, please subscribe to the difax email list (www.unidata.ucar.edu, go to support, then click email lists). Thanks, Rich Clark Unidata UserComm Chair. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From lriddle at ucsd.edu Mon Oct 30 18:32:59 2000 From: lriddle at ucsd.edu (Larry Riddle) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:32:59 -0800 Subject: On-Line Weather Maps Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001030171512.00ae7268@meteora.ucsd.edu> SIO Weather Map Users: There are several on-line weather map users here at SIO. I don't know who you are, so this is being sent to "all-at-sio". If you're neither a weather map user, nor interested in weather maps, you've probably gone as far into this message as you'll find interesting. The National Weather Service has announced the final sundown date for DIFAX weather maps (next Spring). For those who go to sea, I'm not sure whether or not this will have any affect on WEFAX products, assuming those are still broadcast at all. However, the current set of DIFAX products is accessible from sea via the internet (see below). For those who want to see what the DIFAX products look like, go to the SIO Weather Page (http://meteora.ucsd.edu/weather.html) and click on the quick pointer for "Real Time Data". There is a pointer there for "Current NWS Difax Charts". Click on that and it will bring up a laundry list of current DIFAX charts. Note: this is only available from hosts ending in ".ucsd.edu" or ".sdsc.edu". Sorry for this, it is the usual lawyers and contractual agreements thing. I will be attending a meeting in Boulder, Colorado next week. This is the Fall Users Committee meeting of Unidata, an organization of over 150 colleges and universities that teach and/or perform research in the atmospheric/oceanic sciences. Part of the agenda is what, if anything, we (the university atmospheric/oceanic sciences community) should do about this problem. I would like some input from you to present at this meeting so I'll have something beyond my own prejudices to talk about. All of the images mentioned above (found on the SIO Weather Page) are in PCX format. If your browser/computer system doesn't know how to handle this format, sorry again. This is another problem to be discussed next week. Should map graphics be sent out as postscript or fax-format files (easy to print, but hard to view on a computer screen)? Or should they be sent out as image files (GIF, PCX, TIF, PNG, etc.) which are easy to view on a computer screen, but harder to print? One option being discussed is to do nothing. This is not a popular solution, but it is a possible solution. DIFAX and DIFAX like products will just go away. Every school and institution will locally generate whatever products it deems desirable. That would require constantly circulating images to each person in a non-local (cross country/international/etc.) discussion group (either email or telephonic) so that all are looking at the same thing. A second solution, the current preferred option, is to set up a standard set of computer scripts that generate a standard set of maps. This would require that all sites would run the same software (not a problem as the software is "free"), but would otherwise answer most of the problems in solution one. A problem that isn't solved is that the same software, using the same input scripts and data, does not always arrive at the same exact answer when the platforms and/or operating systems are different (Sun/DEC/HP/etc). The solutions aren't "wrong", just slightly different. A third solution, my personal preference, is for a subset of sites (all on the same platforms and running the same software and script versions) to generate a suite of DIFAX like products that are distributed using the same methodology that currently handles the real time data. This would allow two users on different sides of the country to look at the exact same product without having to jump through too many hoops. Doing this at more than one site allows for one site to fail (hardware, power, etc.) without shutting down the entire system. I will appreciate your comments. Larry ---===---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====[\/]=====-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---===--- -----===(* Climate's what we expect, but weather's what we get. *)===----- Larry Riddle : Climate Research Division : Scripps Institution of Oceanography University of California, San Diego : La Jolla, California 92093-0224 Phone: (858) 534-1869 : Fax: (858) 534-8561 : E-Mail: lriddle at ucsd.edu